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  #1  
Old 11-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Electric Joe
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Default Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS!

I'm a electrician who installs residential and commercial outdoor lighting. I keep running up against these 12 volt lighting clowns when I bid residential outdoor lighting. I've lost several high $$$ potential sales. I don't understand how they can beat me when my lighting is so much brighter than the low voltage crap they install!

Any electricians having the same problem? Should I change my approach?

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  #2  
Old 11-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I'm not an electricain but you're probably losing the sales because of cost, especially with our economy as it is. Have you considered offering low voltage as an option & then informing the customer of the benefits of using 120v? No transformer, last longer, etc. Then let them make the decision. That way, you still get the job no matter what they choose.
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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A very well stated reply Chris. I could not have said it better myself.

Have a great day.
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I couldn't agree more. Fantastic statements Chris!
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Good job Chris. You 12v clown! Ha!
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Well said Chris.

Wow,...a new forum...

Hope everyone is doing well.
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Hey Steve at Islander Landscaping, How is it down there in sunny south Florida keys? The weather must be fantastic! You've got the life. How's the lighting business coming along? With your wealth of knowledge in lighting you should become a moderator of the lighting category. Do a signature like mine and Goggle (and other search engines) will spider all your post and give your company name a high ranking on their search engine. Best of all it's FREE
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Firefly Lighting Firefly Lighting is offline
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Well said Chris. Nice new site here.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
islander lightscaping islander lightscaping is offline
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Steve Dale I am afraid you are looking for another Steve .
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I find it so funny how these eletricians think they need to load up these property's with these giant line voltage well lights and spot lights and light everything up so bright it looks like a ballpark, the whole idea of being a good nightscaper is being able to picture what it would look like at night even during the day and use soft and sometimes suttle ideas to produce a warm look rather than a bright look covered in hot spots, low voltage lighting has given us the advantage over these contractors with all of the different choices we have with lamps and lenses and different degrees to choose from, we can get the light excactly where it needs to be and make it look like it should be there instead of looking obnoxious.
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simivalley1 View Post
I find it so funny how these eletricians think they need to load up these property's with these giant line voltage well lights and spot lights and light everything up so bright it looks like a ballpark, the whole idea of being a good nightscaper is being able to picture what it would look like at night even during the day and use soft and sometimes suttle ideas to produce a warm look rather than a bright look covered in hot spots, low voltage lighting has given us the advantage over these contractors with all of the different choices we have with lamps and lenses and different degrees to choose from, we can get the light excactly where it needs to be and make it look like it should be there instead of looking obnoxious.
A good example of this can be found while driving on the 118 freeway at Stow st. at night. Those trees are lit so bright they look like they are on fire.
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Integrity Outdoor Lightin Integrity Outdoor Lightin is offline
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I am having my EC tear out a line voltage system next week so I can put in a low volt system. Client states "The guy who put it in said I wouldnt notice it on my power bill but my bill jumped almost $150 a month!"

A quick look around revealed close to 10 times the draw I will be using. A seperate sub panel had to go in to run the lighting system thats in there now. Its a haphazzard mess of metal halides... high pressure sodium and a UFO landing looking array of mercury vapors in the tops of his trees.

Line voltage has its time and place. Lighting up Mrs.Jones landscape is not one of them
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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The first two post of this thread are two VERY ignorant perspectives. Electric Joe obviously knows NOTHING about outdoor lighting. And ProIT has NO perspective on what it cost to do a quality outdoor lighting job. Quality low voltage outdoor lighting is expensive.

I highly doubt Electric Joe is loosing bid due to lowballers. He is probably loosing bids to quality artistic outdoor lighting professionals who are creating an elegant outdoor lighting portrait. On the other hand there isn't a lot of quality outdoor lighting professionals out there. There may be a chance Electric Joe is loosing out to landscapers that are outdoor lighting hacks.

Anyway it sounds like Electric Joe is an outdoor lighting hack. Where are you Electric Joe. Prove to us Outdoor Lighting professionals that you know what you are doing. Do you have any pictures of your work??? C'mon I am calling you out!!!
~Ned
www.nightlightingfx.com
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
g.catanese g.catanese is offline
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I thought Electric Joe was just kind of trolling the forum... ya know, baiting for a response.

I mean, really.... who could take his comments seriously?
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Let's be nice now with unsubstantiated accusations.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I am a pretty mellow guy. I think all of you who know me from these forums will agree that I don't attack people online. My last post is the most harsh attack I have ever posted - Was it that bad??? Electric Joe is the one who bashed us outdoor lighting professionals with the title thread "Landscape Lighting 12 volt SUCKS!" and has'nt responded. ProIT I am sorry I offended you.
~Ned
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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FX,

No offense taken but we strive to keep "attacks" out of the forum, whether intentional or not. Everyone has something to learn & something to teach. Inform everyone diplomatically of the errors of their ways so that perhaps they are open & receptive of "other" ways of doing things.

JR
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11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
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Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
NightLightingFX NightLightingFX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Joe View Post
I don't understand how they can beat me when my lighting is so much brighter than the low voltage crap they install!

Any electricians having the same problem? Should I change my approach?

I am confused How was my 1st post more offensive than Electric Joe's?
~Ned
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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The first two post of this thread are two VERY ignorant perspectives. Electric Joe obviously knows NOTHING about outdoor lighting. And ProIT has NO perspective on what it cost to do a quality outdoor lighting job. Quality low voltage outdoor lighting is expensive.

I highly doubt Electric Joe is loosing bid due to lowballers. He is probably loosing bids to quality artistic outdoor lighting professionals who are creating an elegant outdoor lighting portrait. On the other hand there isn't a lot of quality outdoor lighting professionals out there. There may be a chance Electric Joe is loosing out to landscapers that are outdoor lighting hacks.

Anyway it sounds like Electric Joe is an outdoor lighting hack. Where are you Electric Joe. Prove to us Outdoor Lighting professionals that you know what you are doing. Do you have any pictures of your work??? C'mon I am calling you out!!!
~Ned

I can see a few instances where someone MAY take offense. We can't protect everyone's feelings but we can still professionally tell someone they don't know what the hell they are talking about.


Diplomacy \Di*plo"ma*cy\, n.

demonstrating consideration and kindness
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JR Garrett
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Professional IT Services & Solutions, Inc.
11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
Jacksonville, FL 32258

Office: 904.742.8797
Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #20  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProIT View Post
FX,

Inform everyone diplomatically of the errors of their ways so that perhaps they are open & receptive of "other" ways of doing things.

JR
OK, lets do this diplomatically. Electric Joe, I am one of those "12 volt clowns." Check out my website www.nightlightingfx.com. How does my work compare to yours? Is Electric Joe "open & receptive of "other" ways of doing things."

I hope I haven't been too offensive but how can you argue that Electric Joe's initial post isn't offensive - It is VERY offensive to me. Heck, I wouldn't even be partisipating in this forum if this initial thread was not so offensive to me.
~Ned
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
NightLightingFX NightLightingFX is offline
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I'm a electrician who installs residential and commercial outdoor lighting. I keep running up against these 12 volt lighting clowns - (offensive) when I bid residential outdoor lighting. I've lost several high $$$ potential sales. I don't understand how they can beat me when my lighting is so much brighter - (very ingnorant perspective) than the low voltage crap they install!-(offensive)

Any electricians having the same problem? Should I change my approach?
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Agreed. Electric Joe's beginning post was less than receptive to new ideas but was expressing frustation. I believe that the product produced by GOOD outdoor lighting specialists are truly artistic & add value to a property. I don't know if Electric Joe is receptive to new ways of doing things but he did have a valid post though it could have used a little more tact.

I hope that you continue to participate in the forum as I believe you have a lot to give & can guide others so that they don't fumble through LV lighting & give the industry a bad name just because they don't know better.
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11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
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Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #23  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I do like your passion for the subject
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Office: 904.742.8797
Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #24  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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For the sake of productivity & the advancement of the forum, can we move past this & on to bigger & BRIGHTER things? with artisic professionals doing the install, of course!
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11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
Jacksonville, FL 32258

Office: 904.742.8797
Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #25  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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ProIT,
sounds like Electric Joe is an outdoor lighting hack. I agree that is probably a little rude. However, the rest is true - sorry the truth hurts. I am sure other outdoor lighting professionals will agree with me.
~Ned
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I am done with this thread unless Electric Joe wants to respond
~Ned
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Great! Perhaps you'd be interested in assiting with the Moderation of this forum so you can enlighten (no pun intended) others that are interested or less knowledgable then yourself. Interested? Up for the CHALLENGE???
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Professional IT Services & Solutions, Inc.
11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
Jacksonville, FL 32258

Office: 904.742.8797
Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #28  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Integrity Outdoor Lightin Integrity Outdoor Lightin is offline
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I see Neds point. He is being corrected for being negative but didnt Joe call us "clowns" to start with ? Not to mention reffer to or stereotype low voltage as crap? Maybe he is up against some rather cheesy low voltage guys who pay no attn to v drop or good design

brighter is not always better! It is rare we go above a 35w halogen lamp but we did light a 4 story commercial building with low voltage and I can assure you a 75w 12 degree lamp will throw some serious light out there when running at mid 11v!!

I stepped off a porch of a client with a line voltage system installed by a "licensed electrician" and I was seeing spots for literally hours from the glare. I could feel myself being tanned as I walked up thier pathway.
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Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I also see his point but 2 wrongs will never make a right. I also agree that low voltage techs are stereotyped as less than professionals. We should always try to take the high road to mantain the professionalism of our choosen careers & to inform those less knowledgable of the existing options.

This is why I invited NightLightingFX to become a Moderator... he's passionate about what he does & has a wealth of knowledge to share with others.

Ned? Think about it & contact Joey if the suggestion appeals to you.
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Professional IT Services & Solutions, Inc.
11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
Jacksonville, FL 32258

Office: 904.742.8797
Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #30  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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True true! You will find a good handful of us on here that know eachother in person or from other forums and find we are a pretty wild bunch and will defend our craft.

Lets rephase the title to this thread if we may to

"lowballers and poor design by hacks SUCKS"

I knew the moment I saw that thread title someone was kicking the hornets nest. You cant come on to a board that is dedicated to low voltage and say it sucks without being stung!
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  #31  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I welcome the group & look forward to the learning experience and am certain it's going to be an INTENSE! I always enjoy seeing passion in someone as it shows their dedication to doing it the correct way.
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V.P. of Operations

Professional IT Services & Solutions, Inc.
11631-1 Columbia Park Dr. E.
Jacksonville, FL 32258

Office: 904.742.8797
Fax: 904.880.6922
Website: www.ProITss.com
I am a State certified low voltage contractor that works mainly in commercial building applications. We professionally service & install voice / data, fire / security alarm systems, fiber optics & CCTV systems.

FL - EF20000774
GA - LVU405993
NC - 28055-SP-LV

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  #32  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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what are you guys getting so bent out of shape for. The man is entitled to his opinion. Be glad he feels that way. More work for us who don't mind installing sucky 12 volt lighting.
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Integrity Outdoor Lightin Integrity Outdoor Lightin is offline
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True I guess without opinions that differ the world would be an awfully boring place.

So I guess all the low volt guys need to get on thier big red noses and floppy shoes and be the clowns that we are.

Anyways. Moving on!
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  #34  
Old 11-25-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Integrity Outdoor Lightin View Post
True true! You will find a good handful of us on here that know eachother in person or from other forums and find we are a pretty wild bunch and will defend our craft.

Lets rephase the title to this thread if we may to

"lowballers and poor design by hacks SUCKS"

I knew the moment I saw that thread title someone was kicking the hornets nest. You cant come on to a board that is dedicated to low voltage and say it sucks without being stung!
Thank you!
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  #35  
Old 11-26-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Electricians work till 5:00pm. There is no way they can do 12v sucky lighting. All the ones I have talk to ask me how do You get between 11.00 and 11.5v to each fixture? I then say thats my secret. If they have to ask then they shouldnt be doing 12v sucky lighting.
Stick to wiring outlets and panels and leave the lighting to the lighting experts.
Sean Curran
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Old 11-26-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Integrity Outdoor Lightin Integrity Outdoor Lightin is offline
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My EC is still amazed how we combat v drop. He used to install line voltage lighting to replace all the crap low voltage he came across now he just reffers it to us.

Most electricians cringe when they think of low voltage.
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Old 11-29-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
g.catanese g.catanese is offline
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The electricians I've had out to connect line voltage on jobs not only don't want to get into LV lighting, they don't want to do any digging or get dirty. Fine with me. I set posts, trench, bore under driveways, etc. so they can get in and out.

I've been a little disappointed with three ECs I used to use when it came to jobs involving correcting code violations and/or replacing corroded j-boxes, rusted out conduit, pulling new wires, etc.

Basically they didn't want to get too much into troubleshooting existing stuff, and didn't want to get bogged down with doing estimates on replacements either, so it made it harder for me to bid the jobs. (They all preferred T and M.)

Seems they were so busy a year or two ago that they could turn that work away. Not sure if they're singing a different tune now...
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Old 11-29-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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The problem is a complete lack of training and education on limited energy and other low voltage installations.

The typical apprenticeships I am aware of don't spend nearly as much time on these systems verses your NEC Chapter 1-4 installations.

Landscape lighting is a mix of art and engineering. Most electricians learn the engineering part, but not the essential art component.
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Old 11-30-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
eskerlite eskerlite is offline
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They dont bother learning the engineering for less than 120v. The art part would have to be at night and most dont work past 5. You have to know the translucencies of differnt leaf types and how plant material and hardscapes reflect and absorb light. If You are in a kitchen and standing at the counter with a shadow on the counter from light behind You, thank an electrician.
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Old 11-30-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskerlite View Post
They dont bother learning the engineering for less than 120v.
Boy you have to love blanket statements.

Where in Ohms Law does it state 120V or higher. Where in NEC Chapter 9, Tables 8 and 9 does it say 120V or higher?

Please think about Electricians like myself that do a fair amount of 12V HVAC control wiring, 12V lighting control ect. There a a lot of VD calcs involved as well as considerations chosing the right wire types for different applications.(and manufacturers requirements)

Quote:
The art part would have to be at night and most dont work past 5. You have to know the translucencies of differnt leaf types and how plant material and hardscapes reflect and absorb light.
This I leave to the experts.


Quote:
If You are in a kitchen and standing at the counter with a shadow on the counter from light behind You, thank an electrician.
Your most welcome!
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Old 11-30-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Bryan Holland Bryan Holland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Rator View Post
Boy you have to love blanket statements.
I agree. That is a little far reaching of a statement. I spent a huge portion of my early electrical career working for an agricultural company designing, installing, and maintaining various control systems, mainly for irrigation and temperature controls. This included everything from weather stations, VFD'd, PLC's, ect, ect...

The very reason for specialty licensing and certification is due to the extreme amount of training and education that is needed in the various segments of this industry.

No one is a master of all.
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Electric Joe
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All I can say is WOW!

I have been on vacation and never thought one comment before I left would create such a flurry! I've read through all the post and my emotions have gone from being upset to a more calm understanding of the input. First I do sincerely apologize for the derogatory comments which I made. There is NO excuse for it. I was just upset at a variety of issues when I posted those negative comments. After reading some of the moderator's replies in this forum, and I can see that many of you have very passionate opinions about what you do. I completely respect that and don't want to alienate myself from the outdoor lighting section of this forum.

With that said, I'm going to investigate the possible of me doing the low voltage lighting as an offshoot to my electrical work. I'm beginning to see the benefits of the lower voltages. If anyone can direct me to good products or distributor I would greatly appreciate it? I operate out of Orlando, Florida but have done work as far away as Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale and a few times even in Miami.

Also, I am happy to see that there is an electrician section on this forum, as It's probably a better place for me to make my line voltage comments. They certainly won't be negative ones
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Old 12-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Electric Joe,
Ned here, glad to see a response. Florida Outdoor Lighting is a GREAT place for you to start www.floridaoutdoorlighting.com. Ask for Chuck Link he can do A LOT for you - LV education, marketing, sales, and etc. He is a great resource. Terradek is another good resource but since you are in Florida I would work start with Florida Outdoor Lighting.
~Ned
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Old 12-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Electric Joe
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Default Florida Outdoor Lighting is a GREAT place...

Hi Ned, Appreacate the info. I'll give Mr. Link a call. They have a nice web site and looks like a lot of selection. Very cool, Joe
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Old 12-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Ned beat me to the refferal Joe.

Make sure you tell Chuck that 'we' sent you a-calling.

Have a great day.
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Old 12-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSLDesign & Integra Works View Post
Ned beat me to the refferal Joe.

Make sure you tell Chuck that 'we' sent you a-calling.

Have a great day.
Just curious what Florida lighting can do that my guy cannot. I have always been loyal to my local dist.(though he is a little high); but in this economy I have to control costs more than ever to stay competitive. So I am shopping around a bit. I have looked at several different companies but the costs are about the same and I would have to pay shipping. James, do you buy from them and if so do they charge shipping.
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Old 12-03-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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LV1: being located here in Ontario, means that I don't deal much with FOLD, but I have met Chuck and they do seem to run a very good operation there in FLA. I referred Electric Joe to them based on their poximity to one another.

If you are happy with the service and support that your local distributor gives you, then I would stick with them.

Buy Local, Think Global.
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Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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duplicates again. I dont know whats happening!
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Last edited by Integrity Outdoor Lightin; 12-04-2008 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Service and support especially at the local level would surely more important to me than your dist being a "little high"

It costs that dist money to offer that service and support plus like you said your not paying. Most dist will allow frieght on a certain $$$ order or a certain amount of business per year.

There are better ways to be competitive than just on price alone. This year I have been to 5 consults where they already had another estimate. 4 out of 5 of thoes went to me when I was significantly higher in price.

If I was located in Orlando like Electric joe is there would be little question who I would buy from. If I am not mistaken the side of thier van says free local deliveries. Joe you also have some very experienced and stiff competition in O town with some really good designers.
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Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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I started out using my local dist. but quickly found out they were just selling lights in a irrigation store. Extremely nice people,....but little or no knowledge. If I were an expert this wouldn't matter, since I'm not it matters alot. I found a dist. that has excellent customer service and will answer questions about designs, fixtures, and lamps all day long. (and pretend he likes it!)

Whether local or not, lowest price or not, if you and your dist. don't jive....it ain't gonna be pretty.
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  #51  
Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Default I don't "like it" I LOVE it!!!

Steve, I can see why you might believe I have to be "faking" my passion, how else can you explain someone being SOOOOO!!! excited about outdoor lighting? The sad truth is that I am really like this about our profession... Day or Night and even on weekends.

Ned...thanks for the mention...

Greg c. Thanks for the heads up about this forum.

Best to all,
Gerry.
www.terradek.com
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Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
islander lightscaping islander lightscaping is offline
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and pretend he likes it!

Gerry please do not take that as a personal jab, by no means was that the intent. In fact it is your passion, attention to detail, and countless hours of service on the phone that have me sold out for Terradek!

I was referring to me monopolizing your time with all my questions and you telling me to call anytime. Even going so far as to give me a cell# to reach you no matter where you are. I spell that P A S S I O N .

Sorry for any upsets!

P.S. That reminds me, I need to call you.....I have another project lined up........
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Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
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Default Always ready to talk lighting...

Steve...no offense taken, I was only concerned that you mininterpreted my desire to help as disingenuous.

I will always look forward to your call, because you strike me as someone who truly wants to be the best they can be. If I can help you to grow your knowledge and capabilities and you become successful in the outdoor lighting busines, then I have earned my margin. Otherwise I am only an order taker...who just cost you money.

Best,
Gerry
www.terradek.com
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Old 12-04-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Integrity Outdoor Lightin Integrity Outdoor Lightin is offline
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Gerry good to see you here. I dont think we have spoken much since just after lightfair. Hope all is well with you up north!
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Old 12-05-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
TerraDek TerraDek is offline
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Hey Billy,
It has been too long...Vegas was a good time and it was good to finally meet you and your wife. I can still remember the great meal we shared together. Well "remember" might be stretching it a little, at my age Knowing I was there is an accomplishment.
The north is shut down now...so you may see me here more often...if I can be of any assistance to you or anyone else I have a fair amount of free time now...so call anytime.
I hope that you are planning to attend the AOLP Conference in Jan. I am looking forward to seeing many of you there. It should be a good event given the economic times we are in...I hope to have some great conversations with "the best in the business".

Best,
Gerry
www.terradek.com
1-800-609-1130
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Old 12-05-2008 - Landscape lighting 12 volt SUCKS! - Outdoor Lighting Systems - Voltage Talk forum
Integrity Outdoor Lightin Integrity Outdoor Lightin is offline
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not sure i will be making aolp. Alot going on right now with both work load and personal.
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